Horizon

Careful Comrade!

I believe Alan is responding to some things I posted on my own site that I may as well not repeat here.

Actually, I spotted the article via A&L Daily, although I did subsequently notice that you had picked up on the same theme.

Leaving aside the specifics, would you agree with it as a general statement?

Sure, it's a perfectly valid general statement, although an awkwardly phrased one. And when George Bush says freedom is a good thing, that's a perfectly valid general statement too.

Pinker is using a valid general statement in a dishonest way to pretend that those of us who are disgusted with Larry Summers are denying facts (i.e. being hysterical females) when what we're really doing is attaching importance to different facts. Notably facts about the quite genuine effects of discrimination.

This same statement, about the attractiveness of an idea having little to do with its validity, also supports the notion that people like university presidents are likely to be tempted by a biological explanation for the shortage of brilliant female achievers in the sciences. It allows the university, and the society of which the university forms part, to feel less responsible for thwarting women. It's the little dears' own fault, you see, and if they complain that their research work is cumulatively hampered by little tasks like housecleaning, childbirth, tending to sick relatives, putting their boyfriends through college, and otherwise succumbing to societal pressure to be kindly goddamned angels of mercy -- well, they're just being hysterical and emotional and denying the cold facts in which, as is well known, men are the preeminent specialists.

What crap. I truly did think we finished this stage of the discussion in the 1970s. Turns out every damn battle for equality has to be re-fought every day. It gets tiring.

It's interesting how stereotypes can be turned around. Martha, you are invoking a stereotype of males which posits another kind of hysteria. I find that a bit offensive.

Stereotype 1: Women who do not behave the way men would like them to are hysterical, i.e., succumbing to some kind of ingrained feminine weakness.

Stereotype 2: Men are incapable of not applying Stereotype 1 in situations were controversy over gender erupts (i.e., they succumb to an ingrained male weakness).

As far as I can follow it all, and I frankly admit I do not understand everything you just said (elaborate if you want but I don't want to be responsible for dragging this out more than necessary), it is on account of the second stereotype that it is considered responsible and appropriate for people to twist out of all recognition the words of a man who mentions biological differences between genders.

The really relevants fact is not of discrimination, but of what the person actually said. At least, that seems to be required by any standard of fairness that I grew up with.

Pinker is using a valid general statement in a dishonest way to pretend that those of us who are disgusted with Larry Summers are denying facts (i.e. being hysterical females) when what we're really doing is attaching importance to different facts.

Though in fairness Martha, the last time this came around you claimed that anyone who defended Summers couldn't be a believer in human equality. So let's say that the dishonors are shared.

On a more general note, I just picked up my son from his nursery, and I think that you can learn more about human nature from watching a group of mixed-sex toddlers in the playground for half an hour (surrounded by their impeccably liberal, non-judgmental parents) than you can from a week of scientific reports. I should add that this 'research' doesn't exclusively aid and comfort traditionalists or identists.

But then having children means making a number of intellectual as well as material compromises.

The boys have been taught they can club together and not let the girls play with the cool toys. If the boys are allowed to do this with impunity, the girls mainly give up and do something else. What does that prove about biology?

If you ever have kids we'll talk about this some more.